Hikerkind - The courage to trailblaze an industry with Allison Levy & Chelsea Rizzo
EPISODE 8
This episode is about courage and confidence. Traits that my guests today Chelsea Rizzo and Allison Levy have an abundance of. As co-founders of the New York based, women's outdoor brand Hikerkind, these two women epitomise what it means to trailblaze an industry. They saw an opportunity, conjured up the idea, and then executed it in record time.
Being hikers themselves, they experienced first-hand the frustration of not finding gear that empowered them when on trail. They lent into this signal, realising that women were an underrepresented category in the industry. They then committed to being leaders in this space, completely redefining the outdoor segment for women. They believe the only way for a woman to rise to the challenges that will undoubtedly come up when hiking outside, is for them to feel authentic and confident. And their hiking gear, including the apparel, plays a big role in this empowerment. By creating this brand they’ve officially shown the world that style and function don’t need to be mutually exclusive, in fact, a beautiful synergy can exist between the two.
Both women started their careers in the fashion industry, but felt this trajectory was limited. Then came covid. They didn’t see this as a risky, scary time for business, but a time of opportunity. As brands were getting lost in a sea of mediocre products and false instagram facades, they built Hikerkind to have its feet firmly grounded in the values that we need to see more of in the world today; Community, collaboration and intentional design. It’s living this philosophy day in and out, that has meant their entire lives have changed as a result of starting the brand. They didn’t expect to feel such joy working in a value-led business where Nature is at the heart of literally everything they do and that was a beautiful surprise for them.
Their goal is to show people that Nature is accessible to everyone, and isn’t some elusive mountain we need to climb. Everyone is equal on trail, reminding me of Gloria Steinem’s beautiful quote where she wishes for a world ‘where we are linked not ranked’.
This chat is jam-packed with entrepreneurial business insights, tales of personal growth and has an uplifting, seize-the-day type energy. These two New Yorkers will show you that a vision is always worth pursuing, as long as it's one you truly care about.
PLUS! Head over to the Hikerkind website to enjoy 10% off your purchase, use SUNSMITH10 at checkout.
Show Notes:
Book reference - Signals: How Everyday Signs Can Help Us Navigate the World's Turbulent Economy, by Dr Philippa Malmgren
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Transcript
*Please note this is automated and is not 100% accurate
Brigid Moloney
I'm here in Australia on Bundjalung Land.
Allison Levy
Where,
Brigid Moloney
What what do you call New York City?
Allison Levy
The big apple?
Brigid Moloney
What the big.
Allison Levy
The native lands.
Chelsea Rizzo
Is.
Brigid Moloney
That what is.
Allison Levy
And, Lenape lands?
Chelsea Rizzo
Yeah. I think we actually might be split up. Actually, I'll send our. Oh, different. Yeah, yeah. Alice and I are in two different parts of Brooklyn, so I think I actually, in Canarsie as well. And and.
Allison Levy
She's.
Chelsea Rizzo
She's close to the water, so she's in a different, two different territories.
Brigid Moloney
Yeah. Okay. Cool. And so I wanted to start each season, each episode this season, asking the guest the same question, which is, what is the greatest lesson that nature has taught you over the years?
Chelsea Rizzo
To be present?
Brigid Moloney
Yep.
Allison Levy
That's a good I.
Chelsea Rizzo
Think nature's taught me, how capable I am. You know, it's something we say a lot. Is, you know, when you're out in nature, you can't control anything but what's on your back. And I think when met with those challenges that are uncontrollable in nature, it's proved to myself that I am, like, super capable. And I, I love that I can take that back into my, you know, every day.
Allison Levy
Brigid Moloney
Yeah. That's very it sounds very empowering. And do you also take that into your business realm.
Chelsea Rizzo
Of course I, I've said this before, I would never have started this without two things. One, Alison asking.
Allison Levy
Chelsea Rizzo
I never have done it on my own. And with anyone else for that matter. And to I would never have felt capable enough to take this on had I not had the transformative experiences I've had in nature.
Allison Levy
Brigid Moloney
That's so powerful.
Chelsea Rizzo
Yeah. I feel really lucky. Very lucky to have have experienced those things. Very lucky to be in this position. But the combination allowed Alison and I to feel like we could.
Brigid Moloney
Yeah. Okay. And I guess nature now plays a really vital role in both of your worlds personally, business wise. What is it? But. Yeah. Like, how does it guide you now? Like, does it is it like this anchoring sense of energy that you kind of need to tap into all the time or. Yeah. What role does it play?
Allison Levy
I think that for us, nature grounds us. And so obviously starting a business is such a huge, you know, we're taking this on this huge thing and being able to have nature to come back to allows us to ground us and center us and keep us on track. Two of our main inspirations were these women who started this magazine called Summit Journal back in like the s or s.
Allison Levy
Jean and Helen and basically their whole philosophy was working was we need to be able to work, we're not working to live. We're or sorry, we're not living to work. We're working to live. And so being able to have that time in nature is really like what they prioritized. And that's, I think what Chelsea and I do like both of us for our trips this summer, we make sure to each have some time off.
Allison Levy
We both went into the backcountry and made sure to prioritize being out in nature, and I think that that's really how nature is. How their business is influenced by nature is making sure that we create time to be outdoors.
Allison Levy
Yeah.
Chelsea Rizzo
It also is funny because nature and the outdoors in general, whether that be on trail or in the city, now also provides a backdrop to our entire kind of lives, creatively from the content we create for the brand or, for what's inspiring the designs or the palettes. And also it creates the environment in which we connect with our community and, and, and ourselves, like Alison talked about.
Chelsea Rizzo
So it's funny because nature is in the center of literally everything we do. I think that might be obvious as an outdoor brand, but as founders of an outdoor brand, maybe not as obvious, but for us, nature is and how it it makes us feel and and and the experiences it allows us to have is the entire reason why we do this.
Brigid Moloney
Also meaning it's really infiltrated.
Allison Levy
That's it. Based and centered in New York is a big thing for us because yes, it's always a surprise when people find out that we're based in New York and have our brand. And I think it's also allowing us to bring a lot of attention to the fact that there is an outdoor community in the in New York, and there is a lot of opportunity for outdoor exploration in and around New York State in general.
Allison Levy
And so that's also a big focus for us. I think you're right.
Chelsea Rizzo
Yeah. It's like illuminate ING. Yeah. That nature is all around. It's all around us and everyone. It's not this elusive mountaintop. It's more accessible and can be more accessible then, Originally prescribed.
Brigid Moloney
Yes. I was actually going to touch on that. You the fact that you're based in New York and it has it can be really chaotic. It almost has this really frenetic energy and that there's somewhat somewhat of a dichotomy there where you're trying to ground in a sustainable business model that's based on the outdoors, yet the environment you're in.
Brigid Moloney
Yeah, there's just a lot happening there. So how does that work to you? And also I find, like the people in New York sometimes, when I've been there or worked there or people that I've met from there, they have quite an ambitious mindset like this, very like push, push, push mentality to work to life. But when I look at you guys in the brand, you've built it, it seems in contrast to that.
Brigid Moloney
So is that what how have you experienced that? Has it been actually like easy to do that because no one else is doing it? Or you found this community that also wanted to do that and they didn't want to prescribe, like you said, to the chaos of New York, how how does that work?
Chelsea Rizzo
I'll just start watching like New York. And it's energy and it's people are a catalyst for what we do because specifically, the second you step outside, you are in the elements and sometimes you are in them all day commuting around. And it's really, informed some of the needs for our gear. And it's also, informed how how we look at, value and how we assign that to products.
Chelsea Rizzo
A big part of our design principles are that our gear needs to look as good as it can, so that our community in New York is wanting to wear it on the streets of Brooklyn, but perform so well that our athletes, our through hikers, our backpackers want to wear it because, it fulfills all of their needs and I think that's, one of our and my biggest assets as being founders here in New York is that we're creating a dual value product, which.
Allison Levy
Yes.
Chelsea Rizzo
Anyone who experiences time in nature, any hiker knows is the Golden Gear. You want something to.
Allison Levy
Perform more than one.
Chelsea Rizzo
Function, less weight in the park, easier to like, just be present. So I think for a couple, for those reasons, New York has been, a benefit and an asset for us for sure.
Allison Levy
Brigid Moloney
Yeah. Yeah. That's that's incredible. Well done for finding that little gap.
Allison Levy
In the market.
Brigid Moloney
I might just rewind a little bit and ask about your backgrounds. Like did you both grow up in the outdoors. Is it in your blood or you've just stumbled across it later in life?
Allison Levy
So I grew up, in a family that our basic mode of travel was hiking. So any sort of holiday we would take, we would be on a hiking trip. So we in the Canadian Rockies or going in Italy that you patera like. I'm so fortunate that we've had that opportunity. So it's something that's always been ingrained to me.
Allison Levy
Even when we were home in Maryland, I.
Allison Levy
Would we.
Allison Levy
Are weekends would be field hiking. And so it's always been something that I've had as a part of me, but I really only started out myself as an adult. It used to be something that I dreaded doing because my parents made me, and then as an adult, it was something that I did to find solace. And so it was something that I was able to find for myself and then see the value in it for myself.
Allison Levy
So it's always been a part of me, but only as an adult did it really mean.
Allison Levy
Something to me.
Chelsea Rizzo
Yeah. I have a different, journey. I didn't really grow up in a outdoorsy family. We did other things and they didn't really revolve around the outdoors, and I didn't really discover, I didn't really discover as a recreational activity or as, you know, any sort of realm until I was like in my s and, you know, did a road trip, started to see some national parks.
Chelsea Rizzo
And because I didn't have a lot of disposable income, I was camping at the time and I was like, oh, this is really fun. I like this vibe. It feels really free. And then when I got back to New York, I kind of discovered upstate New York and discovered the hiking trails. And then ultimately.
Allison Levy
Met.
Chelsea Rizzo
A backpacker who was through hiking on the Appalachian Trail, in Jersey and then discovered this whole world of, like, the, realm of through hiking and long distance backpacking. And the idea that I could carry everything I need on my back for an extended period of time, be selfsufficient and have nothing on my to do list during the day except for walk, eat, find water set up camp was so enticing to me.
Chelsea Rizzo
I was coming from a career which we could talk about how we met, which was in in apparel and luxury, fashion. And the total opposite of that became my obsession. And I and I really, sort it out. So I kind of found it in, in my own, way, and then, you know, became addicted for sure.
Allison Levy
Yeah.
Brigid Moloney
Isn't that interesting that you've both come from such different backgrounds and yet you found this synergy and, yeah, there's this passion. It just goes to show, I guess, what nature can offer you. It doesn't matter where you're from or who you are. It's it kind of, it's universally, like it's effects universally felt. Yeah.
Chelsea Rizzo
I think that's what's been so beautiful about building community and meeting other New York hikers, is that they all have different kind of experiences to the outdoors. A lot of them are like Alice and rediscovering it. A lot of them are like me discovering it for the first time. But to your point, when we're on trail together, you know you're equal.
Chelsea Rizzo
You're all kind of in the same situation at the same time, and you're not, you know, when you go to the bathroom, you're not like looking at their Instagram. No, you're you're like really present and kind of, slightly unguarded because you're all you kind of, all are on this, this equal playing field of, of, of, you know, exploring nature.
Chelsea Rizzo
Yeah. And vulnerability.
Brigid Moloney
Vulnerability.
Chelsea Rizzo
Which I, it's been one of the most rewarding parts about this is kind of connecting with other people in a real, authentic way within nature has been is extremely fulfilling for everyone you know.
Allison Levy
Yeah.
Brigid Moloney
Yeah. And I, I like how you say it just levels out the playing field because I find especially in the product space there is the high performance like those sports brands and all the rhetoric around it was like perform well perform at your peak. And then there wasn't really anything for the everyday person. And now there's like a little bit more buzz around it because of all the sports or recreations.
Brigid Moloney
It is one of the only things that, I mean, you still can be competitive about it, but most of the time you're just kind of strolling, chatting, like if you're doing it in a setting like you guys do with your community hikes. And that's what I've found here in Australia, like, now that I've found other hikers and I came from like a performance sports background, I'm like, oh, this is where just equal.
Brigid Moloney
It doesn't matter what I do or where I'm from. And there's something yeah, really beautiful in that. And, I don't know why I didn't discovered earlier. Like it seemed so simple, but, I guess we mature as we grow up.
Chelsea Rizzo
Yeah. No, no, it finds us maybe. Right. Like when. When? Yeah.
Allison Levy
When you're ready for it.
Chelsea Rizzo
When you're ready for it.
Brigid Moloney
Exactly. Yeah.
Chelsea Rizzo
But no, I think to your point of you know, this kind of communal, communal feeling, I think that's a really big part of the reason why Allison and I started hiking was because nature brings so much to so many people hiking, being outdoors, camping, whatever you want to do in it. And for an Allison and.
Allison Levy
I.
Chelsea Rizzo
Where we felt like the most authentic versions of ourselves outside, but we didn't feel like our gear and our apparel really matched that internal feeling. And so that's kind of where that pain point and that frustration, bonded us.
Brigid Moloney
Yeah. I guess that brings me to the point. Like, do you find that there's an emotional connection between the clothes that a woman's wear that a woman wears and her ability to journey outdoors and have confidence when she's about to embark on trail. I guess you were just saying, like that was the sticking point, that you were like, this isn't marrying up for me.
Brigid Moloney
Yeah. I think if you if you're one of those people because you're saying you came from a fashion background, which maybe we'll get to in a second, because I find that really interesting. Again. And I'm quite similar. Like, it's like I, I, I care what I look like in inverted commas, but not, not at the expense of where I want to be uncomfortable.
Brigid Moloney
That I also don't feel like myself when I'm wearing clothes that a fluorescent pink or like a costume a bit gear. Yeah. That's it. And you. I can't sink into my authentic self. But yeah. Can you talk about that, that connection and how it seems like you, your aiming to empower these women to embark on whatever they want to as long as like with the assistance of the gear to help them reach that kind of stage.
Chelsea Rizzo
Yeah. I mean, first, I can speak from a personal perspective of like when I was, you know, looking for gear to wear.
Chelsea Rizzo
The real life point of contention was I was preparing for a month long backpacking trip, and I needed, like, all the confidence I could get and to your question, like, yeah, I wanted to draw that confidence from my apparel. I wanted to feel good. I wanted to look like myself. And I also needed it to perform, and I couldn't I couldn't compromise, quite literally couldn't compromise because it was the only outfit I was going to wear for a month straight.
Allison Levy
Yeah.
Chelsea Rizzo
It's a lot. Yeah. It is. So for me, it was really frustrating to not be able to feel.
Chelsea Rizzo
Confident, but also feel like powerful in my clothing. If and that's something that we well, you know, we talked a lot about in the beginning when we were conceptualizing hiker kind, we found, you know, this incredible muse that, you know, we liked her style and her story, but it was something about the way she looked when she was in these photos.
Chelsea Rizzo
She looked, like she was wearing the clothing, not the clothing wearing her. And that was totally authentic to like she was. And we see when women trail in our gear, the physical difference that comes over them. And that's how we know it's it's a, it's a feeling, but it's also a presence and it's bigger than kind of internal.
Chelsea Rizzo
We can see people's faces change, their posture change. And I don't even think that they know it's happening. But we have a shopping by appointment shopping in our studio. And so we got to really kind of see these intimate experiences and yeah, that's just like a huge part of what we're doing. Of course, we all want to look cute.
Chelsea Rizzo
I mean, everyone wants to look cute. They're they're like, they don't.
Allison Levy
But like it's.
Chelsea Rizzo
Really about how looking cute looking good makes you feel inside. And we're all just trying to kind of be the most confident, most secure versions of ourselves. And if Hiker Kind could help you feel that way in a situation that you're uncomfortable in, like potentially on the side of a mountain, like then, you know, it's just really rewarding to be able to provide that.
Allison Levy
Also, I think that, like, not in a frivolous way, but most people want to feel they feel that change when they put on clothes, that they feel confident. If they feel confident what they're wearing, they feel like they can do the task at hand. And I think that a lot of big gap in the market, which hiker Kai and now some other newer brands are trying to fill, is that there is this box that was that you had to fit into if you were a hiker.
Allison Levy
There was this certain, like you mentioned, that you had to wear in order to be on trail. And if you weren't wearing that, then you weren't enough of a hiker. You weren't able to do the task at hand. Or you do feel comfy.
Chelsea Rizzo
Yes.
Allison Levy
And so that's the barrier that we're trying to break down that like you don't need to look a certain way. You don't need to, fit into a certain mold of what a quote unquote hiker looks like. You can look like yourself and still be on trail wearing performance clothing, and feel confident and know that what you're wearing is going to conform.
Allison Levy
Yeah.
Brigid Moloney
Yeah. I think a lot of the culture has thought that those two things that like. Yeah mutually exclusive that you can't be both. But that's the you can see it like that's the beautiful thing about your brand as these modern timeless stylish clothing with these beautiful colors that really bring the ranges together. You can outfit them really well, but they're designed to withstand the elements and they're high performance.
Brigid Moloney
But you don't really know that just by first glance. And that is, I think, the beauty of it that you can see from the outset, so well done for marrying those two together when no one else really has. And I guess that begs the question, why? Like you? I mean, I think the timing for you guys is great and you've you've seen a gap in the market, but it does also make me wonder why we've gotten to this point and no one had done it before.
Chelsea Rizzo
There's a couple of reasons.
Allison Levy
Yeah. I was like, okay, I think that.
Allison Levy
For a number one, I think that.
Brigid Moloney
Men have dominated the.
Allison Levy
Industry.
Chelsea Rizzo
And.
Allison Levy
I have to say that, like you look at historically, all of the major companies only like % or some or something are run by women. And so .
Brigid Moloney
Eight.
Allison Levy
Percent or % of the market is made up of women. So the fact that it's such a stark contrast of like, who's representing us versus who's actually going to meetings, there's a huge gap there. But then also in terms of participation, I think that there is maybe a misconception of who was actually outdoors for a really.
Allison Levy
Long time, and.
Allison Levy
The industry was trying to define it for us, and rather now we're taking it back and defining it for them and saying like, no, there's lots of different people that are out there. You don't have to fit into a certain mold. You don't have to be an alpinist who is on the side of Everest to be outdoors and needing gear to perform.
Allison Levy
So I think that the lack of women at the table, I think, is a huge point of like source of the reason. And I think the fact that the industry was trying to define the outdoor and the outdoor participation for so long, and now the participants are kind of like speaking out and say, this is actually who's out to outside.
Chelsea Rizzo
Yeah, I think.
Brigid Moloney
Yeah.
Chelsea Rizzo
Alison and I come from a unique background coming into this, and we are first, honestly, I was scared it was going to be a disadvantage, but quickly realized was a huge advantage. I was so nervous that people weren't going to take us seriously because we came from fashion. And.
Brigid Moloney
Yeah. Do you mean that you're talking about.
Chelsea Rizzo
Yeah, exactly. That they were going to think we're New Yorkers in the fashion scene. And, you know, we just want to hop on the golf court trend. And that was a fear that I had. And, you know, obviously not afraid to talk about it. But I quickly realized that we needed to harness and amplify our unique backgrounds, because our unique backgrounds come with different reference points.
Chelsea Rizzo
They come with different textural experiences, and they come also with two backpackers who, yeah, it's the gear and hiker kind is truly a product of what we want to see in the world. And of course, that comes with challenges because, we're, you know, we're not everyone in our set isn't everyone. And that's been a really beautiful challenge with building out the line architecture of hiker kind is evolving past that initial muse, evolving into, new, categories of use case and esthetic case.
Chelsea Rizzo
And while still riding that line and, and I really believe that a lot of people haven't successfully mastered it because it's difficult to understand both sides. But, Alison and I get it. We get it, on a luxury fashion, referencing, you know, Phoebe Philo of Celine. And we're also, you know, backpacking in the In the winds for ten days.
Chelsea Rizzo
So it's like, yeah.
Brigid Moloney
You're the perfect people.
Chelsea Rizzo
Yeah. We are. It's also, I will say, and this is like now switching to like a very business side of the conversation. It's really difficult to ride a line, from a marketing perspective, because archetypes are archetypes for a reason. It's easy to go down a path, for lack of a better, you know, analogy that's been wellworn. But when you're forging your own way through a territory that, you know, bristly and overgrown, it's harder, it takes longer.
Chelsea Rizzo
And, people don't get it at first. So I think, you know, we we experienced this all the time where every single day is so difficult at hiker kind that like, there are days where I'm like, I get it, people just wanted to run a business and be successful. And so when they were met with a compromise, they started to go one way, one way, one way, and then they ended up over here.
Chelsea Rizzo
And there's nothing wrong with that. But every day there's a million decisions to be made and compromises to be made. And we fight really hard to try and stay in the center of these two worlds because, we know that this is what the new outdoor perspective needs. It needs.
Allison Levy
Freshness.
Brigid Moloney
Oh, you've said so much there that I just want to unpack. That was that that's so interesting how because I did want to ask about business and where you, I guess find the strength and the inspiration to stay on track. And I guess it's, Well, could could you talk to that? Is it the confidence piece?
Brigid Moloney
So. Because I was actually only just the other day, I have followed a little bit the, the lady that started outdoor voices, Tai Heaney. Yeah. And how I'm, I don't really know the full story, but for listeners, she started a brand, an activewear brand, not so much outdoors, but, you know, it's all about moving your body.
Brigid Moloney
She was CEO, became very successful. And then she says they pushed her out. They say she wasn't doing a good job and now she's started other businesses. But she now is becoming very vocal about her experiences and saying, and, it just made me think of you guys and like, you were just saying with the choices, so you're on a path and then, you know, like an investor might come on board or someone you've brought someone in, like a CFO to help with finances, and they have this view and this opinion and, and I was reading the comments from, I don't know, his position.
Brigid Moloney
Maybe it was this the new CEO and he'd come from gap or something and make, you know, male. Yeah, I need you know I've been in the industry for years. I'm like, well, of course he's going to have this very like stereotypical way of looking at things. And he's like, well, it's been successful in the past. Why wouldn't it be successful now?
Brigid Moloney
But I kind of felt for her because I was like, she's the one with the vision. And if you take that away, that's happened in the surf industry, where the more so the industry that I've been in, all those authentic guys, they were mainly guys who start at the brands have fallen away as the big culprits have come in and taken over.
Brigid Moloney
And I guess my question is when, how do you stay on track when you get enticed by things that you might need, like a big sum of money or a new opportunity, or maybe to go sell in Europe or whatever it is, what what brings you back to your vision and and your values? Because you will keep getting tested in this in the space.
Allison Levy
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think part of when we started, we said we do want to just create to create, like there's so many brands out there that are just making things to be part of the conversation. And if we've ever felt like hiker Kind was starting to, you know, start to fit that mold of what the expectation of outdoor clothing is and was, I don't think that we would want to continue.
Allison Levy
So really just keeping true to ourselves and understanding that there is this gap in the market and it may take longer, it may be harder, but other people have forged their own paths in the past, and it's been successful. And so that's what we're trying to do with hiker kind. Maybe it's going to take like I said, it's going to take a bit longer, but people are going to have to really reframe their way of thinking about what it means to wear outdoor clothing.
Allison Levy
And we want to be part of that, conversation. But we also want to be a leader in that space. And I think I remember saying to Chelsea once that like, I think that hiker kind of will have been successful when I see more people wearing clothes meant for the outdoors on trail than wearing something that there.
Allison Levy
Should be.
Allison Levy
That made to wear for a yoga studio or just regular life. So that's kind of the vision. What we see for the the company is like becoming synonymous with the outdoors.
Chelsea Rizzo
Yeah, I think what, what keeps us coming back every day are, are many things. One is to Alison's. Just to reiterate Alison's point is that we we we still believe we're providing value. Like and we know that we we believe that we are well because we both like it, but we are biased. But at the same time, we ask ourselves all the time when there's like new competitors, there's new thing, and we ask ourselves, bias aside, would you buy that?
Chelsea Rizzo
And do you want to own that? And if we say no, we go, cool. How your kind so exists. Like if we want, if we want to buy it and, and we still feel like it has value for us. Okay. That's check one. And then of course it's always hearing from customers. It's hearing from women that they have been they've tried over pairs of pants.
Chelsea Rizzo
Never found a pant for them until they tried. Hiker kind. But what I also love about that review is that she being a caveat. That was like, you know, it's a little big in the way. So I still took it in, which I kind of love, because I think that this idea of like, you know, a brand being perfect for everyone, everything we make kind of these culty kind of brand is not what Alison and I are building.
Chelsea Rizzo
And so I like that. I like empowering women to find something they love and own it. And tailor it, put it, make it work for them, let it work, make it work for them. I think that that's ultimately what brings us back is, like I said before, is is the feelings. We want people to feel a certain way when they try our gear on or, you know, I want them to feel a certain way when they look at our marketing images like, I, you know, I want I guess we want to inspire on different levels.
Chelsea Rizzo
You know, for us, it's just so much bigger than apparel. Apparel is what we know. Like that's our language.
Brigid Moloney
Yes.
Chelsea Rizzo
But for us it's just it's just feeling like we're we're doing something of value. And that's what brings us back every day is.
Allison Levy
That we also do something.
Allison Levy
Yeah. And also because we're not founders that are looking to build a buzzy brand and sell a business and have a big exit and start another brand. That's not why we started hyper, right. We saw a need in the market. We wanted to help redefine an industry that we feel such an affinity to, and we want to be able to build this heritage brand that become synonymous with the outdoors.
Allison Levy
So an investor might come along and say, I have this vision for your brand and I'll give you this much money. And we were like, oh my gosh, we need that cash on hand. But I don't think it would be worth it for us. Is it basically compromise the vision that we have for the brand?
Chelsea Rizzo
Yeah.
Brigid Moloney
Yeah, yeah, I love that. I, yeah, I'm rooting for you and I hope you stay strong to the vision for years to come.
Allison Levy
Us true.
Brigid Moloney
Can we talk a little bit about your your background in fashion because you've spoken to that a little bit, but I will say is, is am I correct in saying that Chelsea, you were a stylist, is that right? And Alison, you were in, like merchandizing. So we were we were.
Chelsea Rizzo
Both kind of in the styling world.
Brigid Moloney
So,
Chelsea Rizzo
Alison actually was like more on the track of a styling career. I when you're a stylist and a stylist assistant, it's a lot of production. I started leaning more into kind of the production realm in terms of photoshoot production, creative direction. I was an agent for a second, so I was kind of a bit more upper.
Chelsea Rizzo
I became a bit more operational, and a little more trajectory. But and Alison kind of stayed on to the styling, path. But yeah, we met in, in the freelance styling fashion New York City scene essentially.
Brigid Moloney
Okay. So you're not you weren't trained as designers. So how did could two questions how did the brand start. Like the the ideas bouncing off each other. Can you talk us through the journey of when you first came to each other and you were like this, this is like this idea I have to actually designing clothes. If you're not, you know, you know, pattern makers or designers, it's like another skill in itself.
Brigid Moloney
Did you get designers on board? Like, can you tell us about the journey from the start, the start of the idea to the execution?
Allison Levy
Yeah, yeah.
Allison Levy
So like you said, we met working in fashion. We met as stylists, assistants. We were friends. First we found out the other one like to hike. And so it was always a conversation that we would have our frustrations with outdoor clothing and not really having something that we felt like was making us do like ourselves. Not really filling our our needs in the outdoors.
Allison Levy
And it came to a head when Chelsea was talk mentioning before about her backpacking trip in it was the Colorado Trail that she was going on, and I at the same time was traveling to. Yeah, I remember where I was going. But anyway, about. Yeah, exactly. Italy. Thank you. And we were both just frustrated with not having the options we wanted.
Allison Levy
And so we started having the conversation of like, why isn't there something out there that, you know, looks great and performs and isn't in pink, purple or teal that I want to wear outdoors? And so it was just a conversation that we would have every now and then we'd bring it back to that. But with the pandemic, Chelsea had quit the industry.
Allison Levy
It was. She decided she wanted to leave. She wasn't necessarily sure what the career path she was going into because you were going to hike the PCT, and I was in that position where I was starting to take on my own clients as a stylist, and the industry shut down because of the pandemic. So both of us were in a position where we're like, okay, what are we going to do next?
Allison Levy
And so I approached Chelsea and basically said, you know, that idea that we've been talking about for a while, you know, we have time on our hands. So maybe it's time we start taking a little bit more seriously. And that was in, I think, September or so of . And we started talking about the idea. We started thinking about what we wanted to create.
Allison Levy
I drew a very remedial drawing of our first piece, which is our mid layer.
Chelsea Rizzo
Well, we started talking in systems, right? We were like.
Allison Levy
Exactly.
Chelsea Rizzo
We, we were, we were pretty like stylist and analytical about it. We thought about outfits and we thought about systems again, our fashion and our outdoor brands like we're gonna need.
Brigid Moloney
When you say systems, what do you mean by that?
Chelsea Rizzo
Alison?
Allison Levy
So when you talk in.
Brigid Moloney
Systems like the logistics of the business or the second term, it's kind.
Allison Levy
Of like a coin, I guess a term that we're coining is like our style system. So when you are in the Apple Store, you have your hook system, which is your pot, your fuel and your fire, and your sleep system is your sleeping pad, your pillow and your sleeping bag. So our style system is the clothes that you're wearing on trail.
Allison Levy
It's your bottom top layer, outer layer.
Brigid Moloney
Just as important.
Allison Levy
And it's our layering system. So it's what's protecting you from the elements.
Brigid Moloney
Yeah I like that. So you're using it to again marry the style aspect calling it a style. But a system is like a thing that you need on trail. Like you need that system to.
Allison Levy
Exactly.
Brigid Moloney
There's no like bells and whistles. It's like.
Allison Levy
Yeah, everything you need.
Allison Levy
And that's more.
Brigid Moloney
And yes.
Allison Levy
Because we come from a background in styling, we think of outfits from head to toe. So we thought of every single layer. So when we first started talking about this idea, we had already dreamed up what the entire collection would look like. But obviously because neither one of us are designers or had worked in starting a business, making a product, we started small.
Allison Levy
We were like, what part of the industry has not necessarily had any innovation in a while? And so we landed on the fleece.
Chelsea Rizzo
Yeah. And we also had that reference image or we started pulling mood boards together. And I think Alison, not really inspired like that, inspired the two. We were like most frustrated with the fleece. It felt really, unacknowledged, stale and then, you know, we started pulling like good creative directors to start pulling references together and had this archive of imagery that we kept seeing this silhouette over and over again.
Chelsea Rizzo
And in one image in particular, Alice and I were just like, oh, that's what I want to wear. That's it right there. And those two kind of feelings led us to being like, this is the strongest piece we we want to start with.
Allison Levy
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Chelsea Rizzo
So Alison grew up like this hilarious.
Brigid Moloney
I feel like I need to say these images.
Allison Levy
I think.
Chelsea Rizzo
We can probably say.
Allison Levy
Somewhere this hilarious.
Chelsea Rizzo
Sketch of our mid layer.
Allison Levy
And.
Chelsea Rizzo
To your point of or your question of like what? From there, I mean, we could spend hours talking about how it happened because it is so intense.
Allison Levy
And such so many.
Chelsea Rizzo
Intricacies like the material, the trims, the pattern maker, the, sample maker. Yeah. The greater the all the fittings, like, so much, but we were lucky to live in New York and be able to have the resource of the garment district to source these. Yes. Like source all these people to come together. We were lucky that we, had the resource of outdoor retailers trade show online.
Chelsea Rizzo
So we went through all the material, partners and found a US based mill because we were like, how the heck are we going to afford be able to, like, produce, overseas, like production and materials? So we found, US based mill that simultaneously checked this incredible box for us, which was that it was a highly technical, heritage mill ingredient brand that invented the fleece back in the s with Patagonia.
Chelsea Rizzo
And when we heard that, we were like, okay, this is the authenticity we're talking about. And then we requested headers, which are like, which are like examples of the, materials they have. And we found Polar Tech power, er, which is their, they're attempt and they're working to kind of combat the microfiber shedding that fleece material creates on the world.
Chelsea Rizzo
And so they created this revolutionary, multilayered knit material that is a fleece, but not piled. And it was beautiful. And it's funny because when we talk about the material, I would never be like, I would never call a fleece luxurious in its like core. But this material that our mid layer is made out of is truly luxurious, and the way that it fell on our bodies felt.
Chelsea Rizzo
Yeah, it felt like luxury, which is not a term I ever, you know, equated to a fleece I've worn before. So it's like,
Allison Levy
So.
Chelsea Rizzo
Much went into creating this one piece and it was so difficult. And we had a mentor at the time helping us figure out how much material to buy, how to grade it. And a big part of what we thought up for is, to at least at a minimum grade and develop all the way up to a size three x, which was a fight in the Garment District, quite frankly, they didn't want to do it.
Chelsea Rizzo
But, you know, we developed two patterns, and we fit two patterns so that we could, make sure that the garment was, you know, able to adapt to as many bodies as possible. And the process was really hard. But obviously, looking back in retrospect, it was really exciting because we were creating something that did not exist.
Chelsea Rizzo
And every time we went to a, the first person we wanted to find was our pattern maker, our pattern, our blueprint. It's what we needed. And when we found her, when we were finding her or them end up being a woman, they all said to us, like, come to me with a block and we'll build off the block.
Chelsea Rizzo
So find something that looks like it and we'll build off the block, which I think is fair because, you know, starting from numbers, it's very difficult to get a good fit. So, you know, I understand their reasoning now, but what I now recognize as a proof of concept, what we couldn't find anything. That was what we wanted. It didn't exist.
Chelsea Rizzo
And and that obviously was a signal that it was truly unique. But, you know, we we found this mishmash group of people to take us through all the way to our first production run of units in New York, in less than a year, which is like cuckoo crazy.
Allison Levy
It was like six months. Yeah, literally. Wow.
Brigid Moloney
And was it really important to did you want to keep local production, to keep minimums down? But also like I would just assume that if you've your business is based in, nature, not necessarily protecting nature, but I'm assuming you don't want to do any harm with your production and manufacturing. Is was was that something that you had to kind of keep yourselves in check with and make sure you weren't, sweating from that?
Brigid Moloney
So, like, local production, good quality fabrics like you said, that weren't pilling.
Chelsea Rizzo
Yeah.
Brigid Moloney
Was it hard to, I guess I guess executing that way. Yeah.
Chelsea Rizzo
I mean, it's producing in New York was never part of our business plan full fledged because very quickly we realized this is like one of the compromises, right? Very quickly we realized that we wanted to create gear that was as accessible as possible for the level of quality that we wanted to put out there. And what that meant was, if we produced it in New York, the the final cost of the good.
Brigid Moloney
The cost.
Chelsea Rizzo
Would be astronomical. And so we did, you know, the economics of it. And we were just like, this is not sustainable. Unless we want to create a luxury outdoor brand.
Allison Levy
We,
Chelsea Rizzo
We'll have to look at moving overseas eventually. So it was always in our plan to move overseas, not only just from an accessibility of price point perspective, but from a centralization of materials, because really, the best having the Polar Tech mill in the US is an anomaly. That's just like a one off, the best outdoor materials are, you know, overseas and quite frankly, the best machinery we've learned a lot and not that much, but a lot about a lot more than we know originally about machinery, where it's made, where it's held, what it can do, and the the parameters of producing technical outdoor gear in the US and in New York, our,
Chelsea Rizzo
our to, refining, to create.
Brigid Moloney
Yeah. What we.
Chelsea Rizzo
Need and, you know, touching on sustainability, which is a word we actually don't like to use, because we believe the second you create something that didn't exist or no longer sustainable. But we like to think about all of our options as consciously as possible and ultimately make decisions to elongate the life of the product as long as possible.
Chelsea Rizzo
I think that our idea of of, you know, when we create gear, you know, how long can we keep it out of the landfill? And the goal being never, of course, but that also trickles down into our messaging, our styling, our tight assortment, you know, investors probably don't want to hear this, but we want people to buy what they need and nothing more, because that's the most sustainable thing you can do is just truly own only what you need.
Chelsea Rizzo
You know, if you want every color, though, please, please go ahead and buy it.
Brigid Moloney
Yeah, a little bit better. Yeah. Thank you. Sorry to interrupt. You. Okay. So. Yeah. So. So eventually you will take, production there overseas.
Chelsea Rizzo
We have. Yeah.
Allison Levy
Oh, yeah.
Chelsea Rizzo
Vietnam. Which is been incredible. We can we can seal scenes. The the quality is impeccable. The reliability is is impeccable, like. And also the.
Brigid Moloney
Stamina that it quite.
Allison Levy
Big.
Brigid Moloney
So what are the minimums? Quite big.
Allison Levy
Yes, but we were accepted into. So the factory that we're partnered with accepted us into their incubator program. So we are being treated differently than the rest of the clients that they work with in their regular factory. So the minimums, the expectation is a bit different for us. They're still bigger than they are in New York, but we are growing as a brand and you are able to fulfill them.
Allison Levy
We're still working towards, you know, better pricing and better, and unlimited surcharges with mills and trims and everything. But working towards that with our volume is kind of the way forward. But the factory that we're partnering with, like Chelsea was mentioning, the quality is so impeccable because their sole focus is outdoor. They produce for some of the biggest companies in the outdoor landscape.
Allison Levy
And so all of them, she is top of the line, most innovative. They have the best procedures and so looking at I mean, not that there's anything bad about our year one pieces, they're still beautiful, but just in terms of technicality and performance are year two are what we just were able to launch in is on like a whole nother level.
Brigid Moloney
Yeah, right. That's I mean, I guess that just attest to how successful the brand is, where you can start to look at doing bit of bigger minimums and and growing. That's so exciting. Congratulations.
Allison Levy
You.
Brigid Moloney
I mean, because, you know, from the outside it it's really hard to tell if a brand is actually successful just by looking at their website. You know, and so I'm just conscious of your time, but I just kind of wanted to loop back to when you started the brand. So. The brands, like, roughly or years old, is that right?
Brigid Moloney
And so you started it just postCovid. We launched in June.
Allison Levy
We launched in June of .
Allison Levy
Brigid Moloney
So how like that in itself I find amazing because here in Australia, like during that time brands and the industry just control affected. Everybody was scared of risk. And you know things really shut down. Not to say that consumers weren't buying things. That was like a misconception. But you know international relations were strained. You know all the things.
Brigid Moloney
So how did it feel when you were like, we've got this idea. The world is very uncertain at the moment, but is that our opportunity or how did you just jump in? Was there resistance or you were just very in tune with the universe and everything, and it just felt in flow, like, can you? Because that's a bit of a risk.
Brigid Moloney
Like from the outside that could look rescue. Yeah. So tell us, could you tell us about your relationship with risk and opportunity and what how you actually just did it like just started.
Allison Levy
Yeah. I think that obviously I wouldn't necessarily call us risk averse, but we are conscious of the fact that, like any starting any business is a risk. But it was the perfect opportunity. We both had the time and the bandwidth to dedicate to building something new. We both had the we're both at this kind of like influx in our careers where we weren't sure what the next step was.
Allison Levy
So it was a very clear opportunity for us to make that big change. And it was a clear opportunity in the time in terms of the market, like more and more people are going outside because that's all you could do in a pandemic. And so if we didn't enter the conversation, then that's why we came to market. So in such a short amount of time that coming to market six months is like unheard of for an outdoor brand, because we knew that we want to be part of the conversation, and we needed to do it sooner rather than later, because otherwise we would be left behind and we would be looked at as like jumping
Allison Levy
on a trend. And we wanted to be, in part, a conversation and a really authentic way, and not just following what other people were doing. And so that's really why we kind of look looked at the risk and said that it was worth it.
Chelsea Rizzo
You also have to remember, realize that like that time was still within the kind of this direct to consumer bubble where, you know, there was, there is now and, but there was becoming a brand for every single item in your life, like a brand. Did. You know. And I remember the that Bloomberg article came out, Alison, that we read over and over again when we were, when we were in the in the conceptualization of hiker kind.
Chelsea Rizzo
And the title was like something like welcome to your brand bland Brand World or something like that. But it just pinpoint a time in business and in, entrepreneurship where like to us, it actually was a signal that like niches in.
Allison Levy
And.
Chelsea Rizzo
People can, can do something that's pointed and people are responding to that and the consumer is engaged in and invested in, and engaged in investing in every aspect of their life individually versus, going to a multibrand retailer, picking up whatever's there. They are excited and they have the time and the disposable income, a lot of them, because, of the situation, their situations to kind of be looking and shopping and investing and like Alison said, the outdoor industry was booming, booming, and women were leading it.
Chelsea Rizzo
Women were were the cohort of women was growing quicker than men.
Allison Levy
Brigid Moloney
The consumers or the people in business.
Chelsea Rizzo
Yeah, exactly. And so for us, we saw nothing but opportunity.
Allison Levy
But,
Chelsea Rizzo
Luckily we were in a privileged position to be able to, you know, spend the time and, and do it. And we had supportive partners and supportive parents and supportive people around us who, were excited and really, they were all excited because they'd all been waiting for us to individually. But now together, find something to sink ourselves into.
Chelsea Rizzo
Because Alison and I are very similar in the fact where we are driven by the idea of providing value and having purpose in this world and that, the opposite was.
Brigid Moloney
The fashion industry not fulfilling?
Chelsea Rizzo
Oh not anymore. It was a time and a place. It was a season, right? But yeah, yeah. As we matured and as we grew, it it it evolved into something that we didn't want to spend time on anymore. And so we'd been, look, we've been looking for individual aid and looking for our next step.
Allison Levy
Brigid Moloney
That's great that you had the people around you as well to support you because often that can be really, a big deterrent when someone has an idea and they go to the people that they love and say, what do you think about this and the like? Too risky, too much money. No one's doing it. But I guess that's essentially what a trailblazer is, isn't it?
Brigid Moloney
You have to back yourself. But I mean, it's great when you've.
Chelsea Rizzo
We definitely had people I'll never forget Charlie's response or were like a friend of mine. You just said, don't do it.
Allison Levy
He said, don't you close? And I was like, I'm going to do it anyway. Like Charlie.
Chelsea Rizzo
Or, you know. But yeah, they were people who said, don't do it.
Brigid Moloney
What is Charlie say now?
Chelsea Rizzo
He still says, don't do it, buddy. Stop being so help. So she said, stop doing it. But, she still helps us out.
Allison Levy
What do you,
Brigid Moloney
Does he say don't do it? Because I guess I wanted to ask back on living in New York and the hustle. Have you guys experienced burnout? Like.
Allison Levy
Yeah, absolutely.
Brigid Moloney
How do you is it? I guess the question is, do you think you can launch a successful business without sacrificing your health? Oh, because when I speak to entrepreneurs specifically, which is what you guys are, and business owners, because it's just you have to go all in. There's, you know, this burnout, this cycle of burnout just keeps happening.
Brigid Moloney
And I'm always like, can do I have to flog myself to make this successful.
Allison Levy
Or can I just be successful.
Brigid Moloney
If I work normal?
Allison Levy
I think like look to a certain extent, being an entrepreneur is a full time job. It's not like a to where you have set hours, you're constantly thinking about the business. But I think because our business is so focused in nature as well, like that always.
Brigid Moloney
Which is luck.
Allison Levy
Yeah, that definitely brings us back. Like the club is something that we're able to do that grounds us. That brings us back to ourselves and wellness. But it's a priority if you if you make it a priority to take care of yourself. And I'm not the best at it. I definitely neglect my health and wellness sometimes because I'm overwhelmed by what the business in terms of responsibility needs for me, but you just have to make it a priority.
Allison Levy
So I think both Chelsea and I are very ambitious and hard working people. And so maybe burnout for some people is not what burnout looks for us. But, we just prioritize our health and wellness and make sure that we aren't doing this to the detriment of ourselves.
Chelsea Rizzo
Yeah. I mean, I think, like, I think, I don't know, I don't have the answer and I don't know if anyone has the answer. I'm sure someone's done a study, though.
Allison Levy
But there's many books written on it.
Chelsea Rizzo
No, I just mean on like the common characteristics of an entrepreneur. And like, I would go so far to say that the vast majority of successful endeavors and led by entrepreneurs have a lot of similar characteristics that I like. How you said, Allison, our burnout might not look the same as somebody else's. And do do I think it's possible to create a successful business without burnout?
Chelsea Rizzo
Anything's possible. I mean, of course it is. But is it far more likely to burnout? Because the culture, because the effort that you have to put in is so high. Sure. But like at the end of the day, you're creating something. And for us, the reward of that outweighs the, you know, stress and anxiety and the sacrifices. Yeah.
Brigid Moloney
Like, yeah.
Chelsea Rizzo
We're we are we're going we're striving to have destination and but we are really trying to be present in everything that gets us there because that's what it's about for us. And so it's kind of sick to say, but like the burnout is part of it because it, you know, it signals that we need that we need to do a little bit better at taking care of ourselves.
Chelsea Rizzo
But it also signals that we really care about what we're doing. And that's how I look at it. It signals to me like I care and I'm invested, and it doesn't mean I, I, I should keep going, I should fix that. But for me, I think I, I, you know, I derive, you know, success from giving it my all.
Chelsea Rizzo
And I think that.
Allison Levy
That's.
Chelsea Rizzo
Just personal.
Allison Levy
You know.
Brigid Moloney
I guess, and I guess that's the beauty of the heart club like you said. And you're able to cut. Are you able to switch off when you go on those high clubs or are you trying to get content and. Yeah. How did the Heart Club evolve. What came first the product or the hit club simultaneously?
Allison Levy
Basically when we were in.
Allison Levy
The the.
Allison Levy
Development stages, we were we only had each other to hike with and we were like, you know what? Like, as much as I love hiking with you, I'm sure there's other people that we could hike. So we were like, when you launch the product that's on your club, because it's going to be a great opportunity for us to meet other outdoor people.
Allison Levy
And so we started the club and to our delight, so many people had the exact same feeling as us where there wasn't. They love the outdoors and wanted to go hiking, but no one to go hiking with. And so that was how the the club evolved, because we really just wanted to find more people to go hiking.
Chelsea Rizzo
Yeah. Now it's it's in five chapters and ambassador led and you know, we have plans to expand it even further just to, new cities and new, new areas.
Brigid Moloney
The big undertaking. Yeah, it's.
Chelsea Rizzo
A two businesses.
Brigid Moloney
It really is. Yeah. Because I yeah, they both look as as strong as each other. So that's why I was curious what started first. Because even getting the hike guides and, but I guess it plays to your production strengths, like corralling organizationally. You really. I think that's the clever part of what you've created. You've. Yeah, amplified your strengths and apply them to so many different areas of business and, and you keep touching on the word signals, which I think is also super clever.
Brigid Moloney
I've got a book off of my bookshelf called signals by Doctor Pippa milgrom. She's. Do you know who that is? It's she's an American. I'm going to say politician, but I think she's like an economist. She was she worked with Barack Obama, but she talks about how women are primed to pick up on the signals that are around us in culture, in society.
Brigid Moloney
I've then applied that to something really random, which is trading the share market, which is typically like a very male dominated. But there's there's parts in her book where she, she uses examples and she talks about if you if you have your, your radar out and you're open and receptive, which I think is a beautiful gift that nature can give us as well, it kind of opens us up a bit and we start to become more alert.
Brigid Moloney
But, you know, if you go back into New York and you still have that skill, you're picking up on all these things and, you can tell that your brand has done that, like, you've you've picked up on the signals and then but you've executed it, which I think takes takes that next step in like sense of self, which is really inspiring.
Brigid Moloney
Thanks. Yeah. I'll just one last question. I'll wrap up on that. You go. I guess I was wondering, how does it feel now? So, like when you have an idea and it's, a hypothetical and now you're living it, so, like, you're living in the dream and the idea, does it feel how you thought it would feel when before it existed.
Brigid Moloney
And it was just an idea?
Allison Levy
It's a really good question. I don't actually think I've ever thought about it, because we're so present in the day to day that I sometimes, to our detriment. I don't really have an opportunity to kind of reflection and have a bird's eye view of like my experience and being like, is this what I was expecting it to be?
Allison Levy
But in some ways, I think it's it's better because my entire life has changed the people that I've met have changed my confidence has grown. My sense of self has grown. I think that I've evolved a lot as a person from it, and I think that that is part of what I was searching. It was more than just, you know, building something that I thought was needed in the in the market.
Allison Levy
It was also.
Allison Levy
Allison Levy
A next step for me. And so I think that you've given me the opportunity to kind of think about that in retrospect. And I think that that's that's how I would categorize it, where it's maybe different that.
Brigid Moloney
I was like that personal growth.
Allison Levy
Exactly. It was different that I was expecting it potentially. But I think that it's definitely defining me as a person.
Chelsea Rizzo
I love that answer. That's really good. Allison. We have never talked about that before.
Allison Levy
No we have it.
Brigid Moloney
Now's the time.
Allison Levy
Yeah I don't think I have.
Brigid Moloney
What about you.
Chelsea Rizzo
I don't really know. I think. I've joked before that I wish we thought about it harder before we started because it's so hard. I wish someone I wish someone had sat us down and been like, this is really, really, really, really, really hard. Every single day is hard. I don't think it would have changed anything, but I, I think it would have set a different expectation.
Chelsea Rizzo
Not that I thought it was going to be easy, but I think my expectation of how difficult this would be. I definitely think I underplayed not because I thought I was more capable or because, but because I believe in what we're doing so much. I'm frustrated when.
Allison Levy
Chelsea Rizzo
Things don't go according to plan because I, I really do fall fully believe in what we're doing, and everything and everything we do. And so I think that's like a little expectation missed, you know, misguided ness. But the thing that I didn't expect to feel, which I've had, I'm happy that I do, is, the immense joy I get collaborating with people on different levels, I think I never just because of how my career in fashion was and the circles I worked it with were quite small.
Chelsea Rizzo
I never really was able to kind of understand culture around management and community and co collaboration. Yeah, for me, the my time in fashion felt extremely, type small and like, what's the word like people put you down suppressed. Yeah. Which is sad, but fine. It's true how I felt. And so totally all the time. And so I, I didn't expect to feel how much joy collaboration, provides.
Chelsea Rizzo
And like, seeing other people do something in our world for our brand. I think it's so exciting. And it brings me a lot of, of joy to see what they create through our lens. I think that's really kind of I didn't expect, to be so excited by that.
Allison Levy
Allison Levy
Allison Levy
Totally.
Allison Levy
Yeah. Yeah.
Allison Levy
Oh yeah.
Allison Levy
Allison Levy
Totally.
Allison Levy
Totally.
Chelsea Rizzo
It's like that. It's it's a lot of what my experience in that career felt transactional. What can you do for me. What can we like. And, and what we've experienced. And starting hiking and revolving in the outdoor industry is the opposite of that. We're all looking towards a similar how can we help each other. And we've called, I believe, and I'm proud that we've also cultivated that.
Chelsea Rizzo
Like that is how Alison and I set forth like, okay.
Allison Levy
Yeah.
Allison Levy
Yeah, totally.
Allison Levy
Don't do it now. You make you do a consumable.
Allison Levy
Allison Levy
Oh, yeah. Yeah.
Allison Levy
Oh, ,%.
Allison Levy
Of course.
Allison Levy
Yeah. Definitely.
Chelsea Rizzo
No. But yeah. Knowing products in and out, you know how intricate, intricate and like,
Allison Levy
How many hands touch it so hard?
Chelsea Rizzo
Like, there's just.
Allison Levy
So much.
Chelsea Rizzo
It's so much.
Allison Levy
Yeah.
Allison Levy
Yeah.
Allison Levy
Yeah.
Allison Levy
Well, actually, at the when we were launching our new product, which is coming at the end of the month, we starting to launch international shipping. So we're going to be shipping globally. And we are also starting to look at wholesalers and on an international, distribution level. So hopefully getting ourselves into the doors in Australia. I would love some recommendations of stories you think we should be reaching out to.
Allison Levy
So that's our plan for for getting you some of our gear.
Chelsea Rizzo
Yeah, I would say to give us a little bit of a wiggle room October st. You can definitely buy on hiker.com.
Allison Levy
Yeah, yeah. Great.
Allison Levy
Sure. Yeah.
Allison Levy
Okay.
Allison Levy
Well, we can.
Allison Levy
Also send you stuff. We can. We can actually ship internationally just to you. That's fine. Yeah.
Chelsea Rizzo
And then we're also happy to. We can set up a, code for your audience so.
Allison Levy
That they can.
Chelsea Rizzo
Have, like, a welcome offer for anyone who wants to try. Hiker. Okay.
Allison Levy
Yeah. Of course.
Allison Levy
Us still?
Allison Levy
Yeah. It's always really nice to have a moment to just kind of look back on what we've been able to achieve, what we're still planning on doing in terms of growth. And we don't really get that opportunity a lot because we're so in the day to day.
Allison Levy
Yeah.
Allison Levy
Yeah. Into the nitty gritty.
Allison Levy
For so much.
Chelsea Rizzo
Thank you.
Allison Levy
Yeah, yeah, I thought I was like, a square something. I didn't do the countdown.
Allison Levy
I just saw, like, a pop up was like, it's going to take a snapshot.
Chelsea Rizzo
So I didn't see it.
Allison Levy
I didn't see it either. Oh, now, here it.
Allison Levy
Is. Oh, this I do I thought it.
Allison Levy
Yeah. You can use whatever you like. Yeah.
Chelsea Rizzo
So, what when are you setting for this.
Allison Levy
To come out?
Allison Levy
Great.
Allison Levy
Oh great.
Chelsea Rizzo
Yeah. I think we will definitely be up at the first week of October, so if you want. I think having it out in October at some, at some point would be great. And then if you need anything supportive from us in terms of assets or this or that anything, just let me know.
Allison Levy
Allison Levy
Allison Levy
Okay.
Allison Levy
Yeah.
Chelsea Rizzo
I can't wait for you to try it.
Allison Levy
Okay. Yeah. Yeah yeah.
Allison Levy
For anyone there now.
Allison Levy
Chelsea Rizzo
Well, like you said before, we should definitely have a bigger conversation around Australia. Distribution. And not trying to hire you, but on a level like we are looking for distributors, like, I can't lead sales. I do the sales. I can't lead sales in every region. Like, there's no way we'll survive. So we're looking to, you know.
Allison Levy
Grow quickly.
Chelsea Rizzo
With the help of agents or distributors. So, if, you know, if you, since you were, like, kind of dabbling in that realm, if there is any one or anything, you know, that, you wouldn't mind sharing like, it would be great. To get us over there and and figure out how.
Allison Levy
To,
Chelsea Rizzo
You know, just connecting more people like you. Because I'm. I'm happy to hear you see the space. I mean, it's not it's not market exclusive, you know?
Allison Levy
Allison Levy
Yeah.
Chelsea Rizzo
Yeah. We have, we're have we're going to have one door in New Zealand, in Wellington. It's a shop called Coffee Outdoors. Do you know them? You should check them out just for research. And because you're a you like this, this stuff. They're really cool shop. They were founded by, around the same time as when we launched, by a couple.
Chelsea Rizzo
But the woman kind of leads the buying. And like, the more and more we start to sell into any market, it's just, like, still so male dominated. So whenever I am, like, on a call selling to a woman, a, it's easier to sell because they know exactly the problem and they're really excited. But be it's just like, I just I'm thrilled that there's just more representation.
Chelsea Rizzo
But anyway, I feel like you'll like the shop. It's called Coffee Outdoors.
Chelsea Rizzo
Now, I don't know why she called the coffee outdoors. I think she just.
Allison Levy
Likes coffee and is an outdoor shop.
Allison Levy
Yeah. Yeah.
Chelsea Rizzo
There's like it's funny because we've sold into like a few of those shops for spring summer , but only really the ones that like get it and again the majority of them actually all of them are women buyers. So it's like yeah exactly. But no I know the shops like those shops are everywhere in the US to where I'm just like, what is going on here?
Chelsea Rizzo
It's so stagnant and like our product would just die on the, on the shops. But it is it is interesting though because there are I've seen in the ones that we've sold into, there's like the children of the founders are now taking over. There's like a new generation and that is like landing the women in there, like, eating, hiking up.
Chelsea Rizzo
And they're wearing it everywhere. And so I think it's interesting. It is an interesting positioning play to, offer hiker kind in like a very mom and pop way, because that's how we're going to help with that kind of anatomy with outdoors. Right. Like there's always this fear. Like we're doing a big push into wholesale, but there's always this kind of idea of like an Instagram brand, which we're just like, not about like, I would, I'd rather go the other way, you know?
Chelsea Rizzo
I would much rather be everywhere. Then, like, people think we're not even real because we just exist on the web.
Allison Levy
You know what I mean? Yeah.
Chelsea Rizzo
No. Not yet. That's. Yeah. And I.
Allison Levy
Just.
Chelsea Rizzo
Do you remember how you found us? That was something I want us.
Allison Levy
Okay. But. Right.
Chelsea Rizzo
Right. I love that.
Allison Levy
Allison Levy
The keyword. Yeah.
Allison Levy
Allison Levy
Yeah.
Chelsea Rizzo
Yeah. Yeah. The same.
Allison Levy
Right.
Chelsea Rizzo
Yeah. Well, I think, like, what you're doing with the clubs is actually really.
Allison Levy
A.
Chelsea Rizzo
Sustainable thing to do. What we have found is, like, there's a cap on on it, like. And there's there's also. I feels like you like to read. There's a good book that maybe you've read already, the Art of gathering.
Chelsea Rizzo
It talks to this of kind of like that sweet spot of community connection and the art of gathering. And yeah, I mean, we made a conscious choice from day one that the club was going to be a tool for our brand, and there was talk about shiny things. There were a lot of people who were like, you should make the club your business, like, this is what you should do.
Chelsea Rizzo
And Alison and I, while we love it, we were just like, no, it's it's a different type of hard. It's a different type of thing. It's like a little too close to production.
Allison Levy
Yeah.
Chelsea Rizzo
Yeah. Exactly. So. But, like, you know, there's been, a bunch of clubs in the US that have started up community, as I should call them. There's like ooh and high clubs. Been around for a while but high club game you know traction. There's high high curb. Yeah there's cool. There's ones in the UK like Athene and Gorp girls.
Chelsea Rizzo
And so there are these like event companies that I would call them that have popped up. And I think to what we said before, like it's a full time, that's like a full time gig. So what I guess. And yeah, it's a job. No, it's a job. I think it could be quite lucrative, but it's if that's what you want to do.
Chelsea Rizzo
And ultimately we just I was like, I don't really want to be a year old camp counselor.
Allison Levy
Like. Yeah.
Chelsea Rizzo
Yeah, but I love it. But I don't want to do it like that.
Allison Levy
You know?
Chelsea Rizzo
They're all like Gen Z.
Allison Levy
Yeah, exactly. Yeah.
Allison Levy
I know exactly.
Chelsea Rizzo
Okay. Well, this has been great. We'll get you a photo of us outside, and I think we have. We have.
Chelsea Rizzo
No, but we'll, I do have photos of.
Allison Levy
Us, so. Yeah.
Allison Levy
Yeah.
Chelsea Rizzo
I'll get you some, hi res.
Allison Levy
Allison Levy
Yeah.
Allison Levy
Yeah.
Allison Levy
Oh.
Chelsea Rizzo
Well, we'll do also. We'll get, Sun Smith a like a a code, like a first time offer code. And then you can you can you tell your friends like there's the you to the Australia and here's a code so you can get like.
Allison Levy
Yeah. Exactly. So okay. Of course. Okay. Cool.
Chelsea Rizzo
Well we'll let you get on with your day.
Allison Levy
No.
Chelsea Rizzo
No. We love what you're doing. Like we. It's like it's beautiful. It's exactly aligned, you know, with.
Allison Levy
The.
Chelsea Rizzo
Who. We want to talk like, you know, we wanted to talk with you. Like I think it's interesting to have these conversations, for us. But ultimately, you know, we just we like what you're doing, and so we want to we wanted to chat.
Allison Levy
Yeah. Oh my God, is she okay?
Chelsea Rizzo
Is she okay? Okay, okay.
Chelsea Rizzo
Oh, my God, that would have been horrible. Yeah. Oh my gosh.
Allison Levy
No. Yeah.
Allison Levy
I love that, I love that.
Chelsea Rizzo
Do you ever get over to New York? If you do, obviously you have to let us know.
Allison Levy
Yeah.
Allison Levy
Chelsea Rizzo
Yes. We have heard of the council. What's her name? Yeah.
Allison Levy
This is all.
Allison Levy
Oh, I don't,
Chelsea Rizzo
Yes, I think I we've I've worked with them. The names, both of the names sound very familiar. I'm not going to get to the bottom of it now, though.